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Sep 28, 2026 Β· 55:23

Where Are the Humans?

Unqualified Fact Check

81%

held up

11Nailed it
7Close enough
0Whiffed it

A red-free week, and the one host who corrected himself did it on his own website. We'll take it.

Show Notes

This week we accidentally spend most of an hour asking the same question in several completely different ways:

Where are the humans?

We start with personal AI agents and what happens when they begin doing more of our searching, shopping, comparing, emailing, and general internet busywork for us. Agents don't care about advertisements. Humans do. So if more of the utilitarian internet gets handed over to machines, where does human attention actually go β€” and which companies are positioned to monetize it?

That leads us through Amazon vs. Walmart, Google vs. Meta, the economics of third-party sellers, YouTube advertising, and Dan making a sufficiently convincing case about Meta that Sean reluctantly changes his mind in real time.

From there, we get increasingly agentic. Dan has been experimenting with TinCan, an open-source project that lets his various AI tools talk to one another, bringing us another step closer to the strange future where you don't manage individual AI applications so much as sit above an entire synthetic executive team and tell everyone what needs to happen.

Then Sean shows up with a copy of Kurt Vonnegut's GalΓ‘pagos.

Obviously.

Sean has been spending an unreasonable amount of time turning his Tomes and Tunes record collection into a walkable 3D record store. There is no business model. There is no obvious problem being solved. It may, in fact, be completely pointless.

Dan thinks asking why he's doing it is the wrong question.

Just do things.

That leads us to Vonnegut's blue-footed boobies, their bizarre courtship dance, and a surprisingly difficult question about AI and creativity: when does something stop being made by AI and start being made with AI?

Maybe the distinction isn't quality. Maybe it's intent.

An AI-generated bus advertisement doesn't need a soul. It has a job. But art is different. Art can be exploratory, purposeless, weird, and valuable precisely because somebody wanted to make the thing.

We argue about AI watermarking, ballpoint pens that can suddenly write their own sentences, and whether today's obsession with separating "human" creation from "AI" creation can survive once the tools become ubiquitous.

Or, as Dan puts it: eventually it becomes water.

Finally, Sean unveils the first version of Sean's Manufacturing Index, an attempt to track whether the physical buildout happening across the American economy is beginning to show up in manufacturing labor markets.

Manufacturing employment hasn't exploded, but manufacturing wage growth is currently running ahead of broader wage growth. Sean thinks labor churn, tariff-driven manufacturing-network changes, data centers, power infrastructure, switchgear, cooling systems, and other physical investment may be setting up an interesting labor-market inflection point.

Which brings us, strangely enough, back to the original question.

If AI makes certain kinds of digital labor abundant while the physical economy needs more electricians, technicians, builders, engineers, operators, and manufacturing workers...

Where are the humans?

We close by deciding that markets are memes all the way down, contemplating a Vibe Index, discovering an absurdly simple Mag 7 trading strategy, and wisely deciding to take the rest of that conversation off air.

Probably for the best.

β€” Sean & Dan

Links

Timestamps

  • 00:00Cold Open: Where Are the Humans? 01:34 - Meta Launches Muse 04:55 - Amazon Blocks Muse: Agents Don't Care About Ads 05:37 - Walmart Can Be More AI-Native Than Amazon 11:50 - Stock Face-Off: Meta or Google for Ten Years? 16:33 - YouTube, Brand Spend and Celsius 19:09 - TinCan: Getting All Your Agents Talking 23:02 - Tomes and Tunes Becomes a 3D Record Store 25:24 -
  • 27:08Made With AI vs. Made By AI 33:18 - Credit the Writer, Not the Ballpoint Pen 35:09 - Back to Ep 54: Do Data Center Jobs Stick? 37:08 - Introducing Sean's Manufacturing Index 46:38 - The Upper Middle Class Gets Walloped 49:45 - Vibe Investors and Social Arbitrage 52:17 - The Worst-Mag-7 Trading Bot

The Fact Check, claim by claim

Meta released MuseNailed it

Dan: Meta's closed, just-works personal agent launched September 8 and hit #1 on Apple's US App Store within two weeks.

Amazon blocked Muse this week, over adsNailed it

Dan: The block landed the weekend of September 20 β€” officially over agent identification and credentials, and in practice over a $68 billion ad business that depends on humans browsing sponsored listings.

Walmart has yet to do thisNailed it

Dan: Undersold β€” Walmart signed on as a Muse shopping partner at Meta Connect on September 23, four days before we said Walmart could be more AI-native than Amazon.

The eleven percent popNailed it

Dan: Meta jumped 11% on Monday, September 21, on a Wells Fargo target raise from $640 to $796 and Muse sitting at #1 in the App Store.

From credit cards to wiresClose enough

Sean: Since April 15, 2026, card-paying sellers have ad costs deducted from proceeds by default, with a net-30 invoice as the alternative β€” the lost card points are real, but no wire is required.

Search is ninety percent, YouTube is tenClose enough

Dan: Hedged on air β€” YouTube is right at about 10% of Alphabet's $402.8 billion in 2025 revenue, but search and other is a little over half, not 90%.

Celsius is a pandemic-era brandClose enough

Sean: Founded in 2004, but its breakout was pandemic-era, capped by PepsiCo's $550 million stake in 2022 β€” right about the rise, wrong about the birth.

The composer who hated the phonographNailed it

Dan: John Philip Sousa, whose 1906 essay The Menace of Mechanical Music warned recordings would kill amateur music-making β€” and who made plenty of records anyway.

SMI at plus point six eightNailed it

Sean: August 2026 manufacturing average hourly earnings rose 3.77% year over year against 3.09% for all private workers β€” a gap of exactly 0.68 points.

The 2009 spikeClose enough

Sean: Timing right, with an all-time high in April 2009 and mostly negative readings 2010–2013, but the cause was composition (layoffs take the lowest-paid first), as Sean's own SMI page says.

Twenty thousand jobs, five times the churnNailed it

Sean: Manufacturing added 23,000 jobs in a year while the five build-out industries gained 64,000 and the rest lost 41,000 β€” 4.6 jobs moved for every net job added.

Factory job openings up thirty percentNailed it

Sean: The JOLTS manufacturing job-openings rate rose from 3.3% to 4.4% between July 2025 and July 2026, up about a third.

Four percent unemploymentNailed it

Dan: The August 2026 jobs report put unemployment at 4.1% β€” close enough for a guy who admitted he hadn't looked.

Switchgear lead timesNailed it

Sean: Medium-voltage switchgear quotes 52–80 weeks in 2026 and the 15–38kV gear data centers need runs 80–104 weeks, or about 18–24 months.

One in four to one in six data center jobs stickClose enough

Sean: Right direction and right humility, but the evidence is stingier β€” Meta's Hyperion settles near 1 in 7.5 and Stargate runs from 1 in 64 to about 1 in 6.

Solar vs. nuclear emissionsNailed it

Dan: On a lifecycle basis, IPCC medians put solar PV at about 41–48 gCO2e/kWh against about 12 for nuclear.

Chris Camillo and the Deckers tradeClose enough

Dan: Right book, right chapter and right term (social arbitrage), but Camillo's documented footwear trade was Crocs and UGG β€” a Deckers brand, not Skechers.

The worst-Mag-7 botClose enough

Dan: Sheel Mohnot's bot ranks on 3-, 6- and 12-month returns, not 30/60/90 days, and reports +347% since May 2023 against +162% for the Mag 7 β€” wrong lookbacks, right result.

Predictions from this episode

PendingDaniel (Sean argues Google first, then concedes: "overweight Facebook, neutral or underweight Google")

In a world disintermediated by personal agents, Meta is the better ten-year hold than Google. Agents don't click search ads, so search revenue erodes, while human attention concentrates in entertainment products where Meta's ads convert.

Said in: Where Are the Humans? (Sep 27, 2026)Horizon: 10 years (to 2036-09-27). Evaluable as META vs. GOOGL total return from the recording date, and on whether Google Search & other revenue shrinks in absolute terms.Target: Dec 31, 2036Confidence: Load-bearing and cleanly binary β€” a genuine two-stock call with a ten-year hold and both hosts committing money to the answer. Context at recording: META had just jumped 11% (Sep 21) on a Wells Fargo target hike and Muse hitting #1 on the App Store. Search & other was a little over half of Alphabet's $402.8B in 2025 revenue, not the "ninety percent" Dan guessed on air, and YouTube ads about 10%. So the diversification Sean was reaching for is real and cushions Google's downside more than the argument allows. Dan's supporting evidence is first-hand: Meta ads convert for his business, and he has "yet to earn a single dollar from YouTube ads." Pairs with `agentic-commerce-consumers-before-b2b` and `agent-layer-becomes-the-os`.
PendingSean (Daniel supplies the ad-dependence mechanism and says he is already shifting his own selling effort)

Walmart becomes the agent-friendly retailer and Amazon the agent-hostile one. Because Walmart's economics depend far less on ad revenue, it can open its catalog to personal agents, and sellers shift optimization effort toward Walmart as a result.

Said in: Where Are the Humans? (Sep 27, 2026)Horizon: 2–3 years. Evaluable on whether Walmart's agent partnerships widen while Amazon keeps blocking third-party agents, and on Walmart Marketplace seller growth relative to Amazon's third-party seller growth.Confidence: Load-bearing, and already half-landed before it was said: Walmart joined Muse as a launch shopping partner at Meta Connect on Sep 23, four days before recording, while Amazon had blocked Muse days earlier (and has previously blocked Google's and OpenAI's shopping agents). The open, scoreable part is durability. Amazon also runs its own shopping agent, and the Tech Times framing ("standards it ignores for its own shopping agent") suggests a closed-garden strategy, not a refusal to do agents. The direct heir of `walmart-as-amazon-challenger` (pilot, 2024), which was scored Partially on its pro-US-SMB framing. This version drops that framing and bets on ad-dependence instead.
PendingSean (Daniel accepts the mechanism and adds the rate-hike failure mode)

Manufacturing wage growth pulls further ahead of the private-sector average, from +0.68 percentage points today to above +1.0. It stays positive for a sustained period as the tariff-driven redistribution of manufacturing labor wears off and the churn that has been suppressing wage pressure stops.

β€œI truly believe we're at an inflection point and this thing is gonna go up above one." (The mechanism, ~48:57): "The tariff impacts and the tariff network redistribution is eventually gonna wear off… and I think we're gonna see an inflection in various American manufacturing wage sectors." (The horizon, ~54:01): "If you go watch these numbers over the coming twelve to eighteen months, you're gonna see this continue to play out." (The failure mode, ~53:11): "Overall degradation in demand. Somehow Oracle goes bankrupt next week." (Dan's addition): "Rates are gonna go up.”
Said in: Where Are the Humans? (Sep 27, 2026)Horizon: 12–18 months on air, so roughly 2027-09 to 2028-03. The formal version on the `/smi` page is the one to score: (1) by 2027-06-30, the year-over-year decline in non-durable manufacturing employment improves to better than βˆ’0.5%, and it is falsified if still worse than βˆ’1.0% on 2027-03-31; (2) by 2028-03-31, and only if (1) happens, the wage premium clears the 90th-percentile "notable" band (0.76 on the current snapshot), ideally the 95th (1.24). A recession-driven spike does not count.Target: Dec 31, 2028Confidence: Load-bearing and unusually well-specified β€” Sean wrote his own expiration date, which makes this the cleanest self-authored macro call in Canon. Context at recording (FRED snapshot pulled 2026-09-27): premium +0.68 (87.6th percentile of 234 months since 2007), manufacturing employment +23K year over year, the five build-out industries +64K against βˆ’41K elsewhere (4.6:1 masking). The JOLTS manufacturing openings rate rose from 3.3% to 4.4% while the quits rate stayed flat at 1.4%. Note the tension: leg 1 currently runs the wrong way (non-durable jobs βˆ’1.02% YoY, and the page says it "has been getting worse, not better"). Separately, the production test run the same day (`claude/UA-SMI-Production-Test-2026-09-27.md`) found non-durable output βˆ’1.5%, meaning real lost work rather than productivity, which is the kind of loss that *can* ease. The "above one" on air is stricter than the page's notable band (0.76) and looser than its ideal (1.24); score against the page. Pairs with `manufacturing-returns-as-trades-not-factories` and `domestic-manufacturing-shift-limited`.
PendingDaniel (Sean calls it "a possibility" and asks about durability)

Over the next decade the comfortable upper middle class sees the weakest earnings and net-worth trajectory of any cohort, as high earnings built on credentialed white-collar work stop compounding. Trades, manufacturing and other atom-economy "doers" move up, and the resulting status anxiety becomes a political force.

β€œMy pet theory is that the upper middle class is the one that's gonna get walloped over the next decade… their expenses are too high because they have high earnings. And I'm questioning their ability to have high earnings going forward the way history has foretold." (The political half): "It's the two percent where revolutions come from. I think it's the upper middle class that is where the angst is… the near to power who are watching themselves and their cohort backslide." (The other side of the trade): "The tradespeople, the manufacturing, the doers, the people in the physical and atoms world, they're gonna come up.”
Said in: Where Are the Humans? (Sep 27, 2026)Horizon: 10 years. Evaluable against Fed Distributional Financial Accounts net-worth growth by percentile (the 50th–90th and 90th–99th bands versus the bottom 50% and top 0.1%), and against trades-vs.-professional wage growth.Confidence: Load-bearing for Dan's standing worldview. It is the explicit bridge between `atom-economy` (Ep 47), `tacit-knowledge-edge` (Ep 48) and the Ep 56 "revolutions come from the top two percent" beat, which he calls back here. His supporting claim, that the bottom 50%, the deciles above it and the top 0.1% have seen the largest net-worth gains while the upper middle has seen the smallest, was not scored in this episode's fact-check and should be checked against DFA before it gets repeated. Current shares (Q2 2026 DFA): top 0.1% 15.0%, 90th–99th 36.4%, 50th–90th 28.8%, bottom 50% 2.3%. Sean's durability question ("is this a trend that's durable over a five- or ten-year period?") is left open; Dan's answer is that it's "up to the hive mind."
PendingSean (made-with vs. made-by) vs. Daniel ("until it becomes water") β€” logged as one contested entry

Two-sided. Sean: public perception of AI-assisted work settles on a distinction between things made *by* AI (slop, judged harshly) and things made *with* AI (human intent visible, judged as craft). Daniel: the distinction dissolves instead. Like the phonograph, AI use "becomes water," watermarking fails because non-US models won't comply, and nobody asks who held the pen.

Said in: Where Are the Humans? (Sep 27, 2026)Horizon: 5–10 years. Scoreable on whether a durable "made with AI" label or norm emerges in creative markets (awards eligibility, platform labeling, the artist community Sean describes), or whether disclosure norms fade the way "digitally recorded" did.Confidence: The episode's intellectual centerpiece and its working title, set off by Sean reading Vonnegut's blue-footed booby passage from *GalΓ‘pagos*. Genuinely contested, and each host concedes the other's strongest point: Sean accepts that it "becomes water" eventually, and Dan accepts courtroom evidence as the case where provenance matters. Both positions can end up true in sequence (a made-with norm first, then dissolution), so score which one describes 2030, not which was right in principle. Sean's digital-vs-film analogy is his own best evidence for Dan's side. Pairs with `ai-creativity-jobs-fears-unfounded` and Ep 57's `comedy-before-science-as-agi-marker`.
PartiallyDaniel

Walmart will successfully position itself as the pro-US-small-business alternative to Amazon's China-factory-direct model, leveraging brick-mortar / data integration to drive omnichannel adoption.

Resolution: The growth half landed cleanly: Walmart's Q1 FY2027 results (reported May 21, 2026) showed US eCommerce +26% and advertising +36–37%, driven by store-fulfilled delivery/pickup (omnichannel), Walmart Connect, and a Marketplace that crossed ~200,000 active sellers. But the strategic-framing half ran the *opposite* way: rather than positioning as the pro-US-small-business alternative to Amazon's China-direct model, Walmart aggressively recruited Chinese sellers β€” Marketplace Pulse found China-based merchants reached 34% of active sellers, with nearly 60% of 2025 new sellers China-based β€” while Amazon's late-2024 "Haul" pushed Amazon further toward the same China-direct model. Measurable omnichannel/marketplace growth came true; the differentiating pro-US-SMB positioning did not (evidence runs counter) β†’ Partially. Sources: Walmart earnings (SEC), Marketplace Pulse, Modern Retail, CNBC (2026-06-05).

Said in: Managing Remote Teams, Walmart v. Amazon (May 12, 2024)Horizon: 12–24 months from prediction (mid-2026 evaluable now)Target: Dec 31, 2026Updated: Sep 27, 2026Confidence: Medium
Didn'tDaniel (Sean endorses, reasoning from Meta's training investment)

A meaningful share of the construction-phase trades workforce on a large data center stays on permanently after commissioning β€” the headcount does not collapse to near-zero once the facility is running.

Resolution: Flagged πŸ”΄ in the Ep 54 fact-check and the evidence has only hardened since. **Stargate (1 GW): ~6,400 construction workers β†’ 100–1,000 permanent staff β€” 1.6% to 15.6%**, and the permanent roles are facility technicians and engineers, a different skill set rather than a retained construction crew. Hyperscale permanent staffing runs **0.2–0.3 people per MW** (against 2.0–3.0/MW at small 1–5MW sites), so a 300MW campus supports roughly 60–90 permanent people. Brookings (published 4 May 2026, updated 10 Aug 2026) found a county's first large data center raised data-processing employment **+56% over a decade** and telecoms +43% β€” but that is **only ~100–200 jobs**, with **wages unchanged** and home prices up just 2–5%. **The steelman the hosts didn't make, and it holds.** In Virginia, Texas, Ohio and Arizona the buildout is continuous enough that trades **chain from project to project for years**, so trades employment persists *regionally* even though almost nobody stays on any single site. If the claim is "the crew that builds it stays to run it," it is false. If it is "the work stays in the region," it is defensible β€” and Meta's training program guarantees *jobs*, not jobs at one site, which would satisfy the spirit while failing the letter. Score both readings as the entry originally asked. Sources: Brookings, Stargate reporting, Hamm Institute per-MW staffing. (2026-08-29)

Said in: Rolling Your Own Problems (Aug 9, 2026)Horizon: Evaluable as the 2025–2027 hyperscale cohort commissions β€” compare peak construction headcount against steady-state operations headcount per site, and watch whether trained cohorts are redeployed to new sites (which supports the *program* logic but falsifies the *permanence* claim).Target: Dec 31, 2027Updated: Sep 27, 2026Confidence: Load-bearing and currently trending wrong β€” flagged πŸ”΄ in the episode fact-check, so this entry exists partly to be scored honestly later. Available evidence at recording: Meta's Hyperion campus in Louisiana peaks near 7,500 construction workers and settles at roughly 1,000 permanent jobs (~7.5:1); the Hamm Institute puts construction at 0.7–2.0 workers/MW against 1–2 permanent staff/MW at hyperscale; McKinsey puts up to 1,500 on-site for a 250,000 sq ft facility; crews typically demobilise after 12–36 months and move to the next project, which is the standing business model of construction trades. The "2,000 electricians" figure itself is a fair ballpark for a gigascale build β€” electrical is usually the largest single trade on these jobs β€” so the error is specifically about stickiness, not scale. The steelman the hosts did not make: Meta's training program guarantees *jobs*, not jobs *at one site*, so a permanently employed itinerant trades workforce would arguably satisfy the spirit of the claim while failing its letter. Score both readings.
PendingDaniel (Sean takes the opposite side β€” B2B first, on reorder volume and inventory-aware replenishment)

Consumers hand purchasing authority to AI agents before businesses do, because the cost of an agent's mistake scales with the order size; B2B's first purchase stays human even where reorders get automated.

Said in: It's Memes that Keep Us Together (Aug 2, 2026)Horizon: ~2 years; evaluable mid-2028 via agent-initiated GMV split between consumer and B2B channelsTarget: Dec 31, 2028Updated: Sep 27, 2026Confidence: Load-bearing β€” a genuine on-mic disagreement with both positions well argued, which makes it unusually scoreable. Sean partially concedes ("Nah, you're right"), then recovers the B2B case on inventory-awareness rather than order volume, and Dan agrees with that narrower version. Score both sides. Context: Shopify shipped UCP (Jan 2026), agentic storefronts by default (Mar 2026), and Global Catalog MCP (Jun 2026); Stripe shipped Link wallets for agents (Apr 29, 2026). The rails existed at recording time; the behavior did not yet.
PendingSean (Dan supplies the architecture requirement and the lock-in argument)

The agent interface becomes the operating system β€” the primary layer through which people touch every other tool β€” and it must be a *horizontal* layer that survives changes of model provider and harness, not a vertical stack per vendor.

Said in: Rolling Your Own Problems (Aug 9, 2026)Horizon: 3–5 years. Evaluable on whether the durable winners at the interface layer are provider-agnostic (Buzz's model-agnostic design, workgroove, HQ) or vendor-native (Claude Tag, Cowork, Copilot), and on whether users report an agent as their primary computing interface rather than one app among many.Updated: Sep 27, 2026 (3 revisits)Confidence: Load-bearing thesis, and the episode's most testable *product* claim because both hosts already have skin in it. Sean's own evidence cuts against the horizontal preference: Cowork's mobile release (2026-07-07) obsoleted several tools he had built precisely to stay provider-agnostic, and he says out loud that the vendor-native version is "pretty slick" and he may just use it. Dan holds the line anyway and names the risk from the other direction β€” "you do doing feature releases that just sort of bulldozed something that you had built." The named contenders at recording: Buzz (Block, announced 2026-07-21, Apache-2.0, agents as first-class channel members over Nostr, pre-1.0), workgroove.ai, HQ. Pairs with `automation-agency-window-closing` and Ep 53's `agent-ready-commerce` lane.